Andoni and 25 years of Mugaritz: 'As long as I live, we will continue to make dreams and cook ideas'

Penicillin-ripened Millefeuille, cold beef, oysters in a Champagne glass, gluten balls rolled in string, nipples and silicone udders to suck on. The feeling of incómodo conveyed by the 2023 menu at Mugaritz in Errenteria is as high as ever. And it could not be otherwise on such an important anniversary: the restaurant celebrates 25 years by lingering on the recuerdos of the future, the memories that we may take for granted in a few decades.

Sublime Mugaritz, we said before the pandemic. It’s that feeling that Kant called of "terrible enjoyment" in the face of visions that disorient, "a momentary impediment followed by a stronger outpouring of vital forces" that this workshop of ideas in the San Sebastian countryside has unleashed stronger than any other restaurant in the world, and for twenty-five years now. This is a super achievement for Andoni Luis Aduriz, a chef and entrepreneur with an encyclopaedic culture: during a long chat, he moves with ease from a j'accuse the local taxi lobby to the possibilities of anandamide, the molecule of happiness; from the forest of bacteria in microbiota to the decline of ancien régime gastronomic criticism. Art, gastronomy, science, society and humanity live together in a unique mind.

Good morning, Andoni, in March 1998 you did your first service. How do you feel 25 years later?
While driving here this morning, I thought I was a very lucky man. For three reasons: today in the restaurant we all work 8 hours a day, an achievement and a privilege that gives me great peace. The second reason is that we are almost always full: 11 tables for 8 services a week, another incredible fortune. But the most critical factor is the third one: we all work doing what we love to do, something priceless, which I appreciate even more when I hear the guys who have been with us complain about how difficult it is today to fulfil the 3 conditions simultaneously.

Did you work a lot in the early days of Mugaritz?
Like a savage (salvaje). No less than 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, Monday to Sunday. And maybe at the end of the service, from 2 a.m., customers would ask to meet or greet me. I would listen to the opinions of every foodie - a term that didn't even exist at the time. They would tell me their plans to change the world. Today this no longer exists, but it cost me a lot of time and psychological resources to break the mould of the classic hotellerie.

How did you manage the balance in your family?
I met my wife in a restaurant, which helped us because she knew very well the sacrifices running such a business required. In the beginning, we practically lived here, in this small annexe next to the restaurant. And we often slept there because, at 4 a.m., it made no sense going home if you had to be at Mugaritz at 8 a.m. the next day. Luckily, times have changed.

Fine dining does not seem to be in fashion today. Some say it could become extinct.
This is a statement born of great prejudice, which does not consider the huge number of different inclinations of people. Some men like to dress up as women and others like to have rough sex. Some people love cruise ships and others will never set foot on one in a lifetime. Some men love to dress like Elvis Presley, thousands of them. Hay gente para todo, everything has its audience. Fine dining is certainly not dying, even if they announce its funeral every other day.

How do you explain this?
We live in an era of widespread indignation. We are indignant about everything, often rightly so: the mistreatment of minorities, animals, and people. But to say that fine dining is coming to an end is like saying that opera is dying. But opera, like cuisine, never dies. It changes, that yes: there is belcanto, twelve-tone music... Everything is renewed and nothing disappears. Fortunately.

The fine dining model is still very French and linked to Michelin.
True, but the wind of change is already here. I see it in young people: they don't have the desperate obsession with stars we had two decades ago. After all, if I ask you which restaurants have three Michelin stars in Belgium, would you know? No; and the Belgians themselves hardly know. Stars are not an automatic guarantee of a complete restaurant. We have 2 and we attract people from all over the world daily. Like Elkano. They have one but everyone knows they are one of the best fish restaurants in the world. Or Asador Etxebarri: people kill themselves to get a table there. There are other guides, other lists, TV platforms. Today, Spain's most famous food critics have far fewer followers than many restaurants: they no longer have absolute power. The world is changing, there is something for everyone: meat, fish, Basque or Italian, vegetable or gourmet restaurants like El Celler de Can Roca or Quique Dacosta.

What do people from Mugaritz look for?
We get people from halfway around the world, who almost always come no more than once a year, mainly to understand what we are doing. A very good writer called Martín Caparrós wrote a valuable book, titled 'Ahorita'. The main thesis is that our species and evolution have been shaped by fire; but the age of fire is fading, the flame is dying out and today, in the world, we talk more about cooking than we consume. There are el Bulli fans who never dined there, just as Beatles fans who never saw them live. We always try to cook ideas for those who come, without hijacking or boring anyone.

Cooking ideas is Mugaritz's mission. Are you cooking more ideas now or 25 years ago?
In general, we have been cooking ideas since 1973, when Nouvelle Cuisine, the movement that radically changed the restaurant industry, was born. Cuisine is always a child of its time, so restaurants also changed drastically after the French movements of May 1968. Until then, manual dexterity was enough to cook; afterwards, something magical happened: for the first time, the cook did not emphasise hands but ideas. Gualtiero Marchesi's open ravioli is an example. He was a revolutionary. We always try to cook the avant-garde, experiment with uncomfortable ideas, and violate the dictatorship of taste by interpreting temperatures and textures as new ingredients. And to make saludable, healthy cooking. The future demands this.

How do you imagine Mugaritz in 15 years' time?
I wouldn't want us to become a caricature of ourselves, living off past successes. I would not allow that: we would not be honest with ourselves or our customers. If I realised that I could not maintain the same tension for 6 months of service [every year Mugaritz opens to the public from April to October, the other months are dedicated to studying the menu for the following year], I would reduce the opening to 3. For many people, time is a luxury; for me, the luxury is to continue to be a dreamer. To work with those who are committed and believe in what they do. In 15 years, if I don't die first, we will continue in the same way. Where could I go outside Mugaritz? Nowhere.

Translated into English by Slawka G. Scarso